Our guest today is Dor Star. Dor is an educational counselor
(MA) and a level 2 TEAM practitioner who works with children in
Israel who have emotional and interpersonal problem. He works with
children as young as four years old, but most of his work is with
children ages seven to twelve years old.
The children he works with experience various challenges and
difficulties such as: Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder
(ADHD), Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD), learning disabilities,
tantrums, outbursts of anger, all kinds of anxieties, social
difficulty, bullying and much more.
His work is unique because he works mainly in small groups (4-6
participants) using martial arts and sports as therapeutic
tools.
In his work Dor uses the TEAM model with some adaptation,
because of the children’s ages and sports methods, with great
success! In fact, one can say that he discovered for himself, and
for his patients, a new way to use the TEAM model. He also teaches
sports and martial arts trainers who are interested in entering the
field of child therapy.
Dor describes his first encounter with TEAM-CBT, which blew him
away, but he was initially frustrated because he was thinking of
his conventional ways of dealing with kids VS TEAM. But after a few
weeks he discovered that he could use the TEAM structure to improve
his approach, and wow, did he ever start to shine, as did his
results with TEAM.
Today’s podcast was really a breath of fresh air!
Dor began with T = Testing, and describes how he developed
simple assessment tools to rate how his children (aged 4 to 11)
were feeling at the start and end of his classes, but also how they
felt about him. He uses simple questions like “Did I understand you
today? How well did I listen?”
He also asks them, “How much fun was the session,” and “How did
you grade yourself?” Then they grade him on a scale from 0 (the
worst) to 10 (the best.) So, it’s quick, easy, and . . .
shocking.
Dor says:
“I found out that I wasn’t nearly
as effective as I thought. Sometimes the kids thought the class was
fun, but I got really low grades on Empathy, as well as how
depressed, anxious and angry they were feeling at the start and end
of each group session. Essentially, I discovered that I wasn’t
achieving almost any of my goals for my kids. This was disturbing
at first, and I had to let my ego die. But I decided to try to view
it as valuable information that I might be able to use to learn and
grow.”
For example, I had one of the most
amazing sessions with an 11 year who was smiling the entire time. I
was absolutely certain it was one of my best sessions ever.
But when I asked him for my grade,
he gave me a 3 out of 10!
When I asked why, he explained that
at the start I didn’t introduce myself or ask him about
himself!
So, in this simple but compelling way, Dor has used the T =
Testing to transform the entire way he works with kids! I believe
he’s had the same experiences I’ve had with the T = Testing
component of TEAM. Dor has made his patients his teachers, and this
has led to some amazing and revolutionary developments in his
approach.
Dor emphasizes the importance of E = Empathy, and says that
“the Five Secrets of Effective Communication” are incredible! For
example, if they’re having a rage attack, or a temper tantrum, you
can tell them they are absolutely right in the way they’re thinking
and feeling.”
He also uses what he calls the Five Ways of Love.
Verbally expressing respect and liking
Giving service: tying a child’s shoes, giving them some water
during the training. These small acts can create feelings of trust
and connection.
Spending time with them, paying attention to them. This is
especially important because so many are angry and try to push
others away. They are good at getting other people to reject them
and not want to spend time with them.
Giving gifts, something they can take home and show to their
parents.
Making physical contact with them during the martial arts
training, playing with them, having fun.
I (David) would note that physical contact might be something
to be careful with. Of course, when you are teaching martial arts,
it may be perfectly justified and desirable. I came from the
psychotherapy perspective, and I have been trained that ANY
touching of a patient other than shaking hands at the initial and
final sessions is grounds for a malpractice suit as well as an
ethics charge.
Dor also made some really illuminating comments on the A =
Assessment of Resistance (formerly called Paradoxical Agenda
Setting.) At the initial evaluation, he talks to the teachers,
parents, and students. The agendas from teachers and parents are
things like “he has an anger problem” or a problem paying attention
in class, or whatever.
However, 90% of the time, the children frequently are unaware
of those agendas, or have no interest in the goals of the teachers
and parents. Instead, he finds out what the children want to work
on, and finds this to be the most and only effective way to
approach the treatment. He says that it is fairly easy to set goals
with children of any age, even as young as 4 years old, but those
in the 8 to 11 years of age are the most difficult.
He said that the children’s goals may be to learn how to hit
back when they are being bullied in school, or to have fun and make
friends with other kids.
I was delighted to hear about Dor’s methods of setting goals
with his kids and have felt strongly along these lines for many
years! I say, Kudos, Dor!
He also described doing a Cost-Benefit Analysis of crying when
being bullied, and also helps his children see the positives in
their symptoms using Positive Reframing. Dor explains:
For example, I worked with a child
who was bullied at school. In order for the work to be effective, I
asked that the boy who bullied him be included in the group as
well.
After seeing the bullying happening
in real time, I had two private five minute sessions with each
child while the other kids played. In these sessions I used empathy
techniques and received a score of 10
I started fooling around with the
TEAM-CBT Agenda-Setting techniques. The goal was for the child who
suffers from bullying to choose to behave in a different way. The
child said he was willing to do it to prove to me that he is strong
and to get back at the kids who beat him.
I then talked to the bully boy and
asked him if he was willing to help me work with that boy. He was
happy to do it because he wanted him to stop crying all the time
and get punished for it.
After that the M = Methods part was
really easy and fun. I hade the bully train the kid =whom he’d
bulled. Two meetings after that they were best friends. In my
experience (and I have done this process several times) the bully
is the best therapist for a child who suffers from bullying!
After Dor described his approach to helping kids who are being
bullied, he said that if the parents or authorities step in to help
it can make things worse because they child is placed in the role
of being a baby, which may intensify the bullying.
David asks: Dor, is a safety plan for the child important? Can
the child always learn to deal with the bullying on their own? Any
details or examples would be great! This was Dor’s
answer:
I didn't address it enough, but you
can't provide good therapy without providing good education. That's
why I like working in schools because I can easily talk to the
teachers. It is clear that we as adults need to talk about values
and set boundaries, and in severe cases we may need to intervene
and provide a safety net for the therapeutic process.
But I feel that it is my job as a
therapist to give my patient the tools to deal with their problems
on their own. And bullying, like any problem in a relationship, is
about guilt. And as soon as I stop blaming the other and start
trying to improve myself and treat the other and his wishes with
respect the change begins to happen.
David:
I agree strongly with what you just
said! My research when I was in Philadelphia years back strongly
supported the notion that blame is one of the main causes of
relationship conflicts.
Dor continues:
In another case of mine, I worked
with a child who complained that whoever was sitting on him was
yelling at him and throwing things at him. I wasn't sure what could
be done and gave him all kinds of bad suggestions
At this point a 10-year-old boy
with autism stopped me () and asked him what he asked the boy who
was bothering him.
He said that the he was criticized
for the exact same thing--he was making noises that disturbed the
boy next to him.
From there we continued with
homework to find out what is bothering that child, to tell him that
he is right, and to ask him if he is ready to stop hitting and
yelling at the second patient and his behavior will change. It was
a huge success.
Dor continues to talk about the idea of specificity which is so
central to TEAM-CBT:
I discovered that the techniques we
teach children should be direct and simple. In the past we believed
in all kinds of indirect techniques that were supposed to somehow
help the child. The idea is to stop using general definitions like
"self-confidence" "concentration abilities" and "social problems."
Instead, we can start being specific in our goals and
techniques.
Rhonda and I were thrilled to learn about Dor’s terrific work
adapting TEAM to working with very young people. I encouraged Dor
to consider a book on TEAM for TOTS (or some other title) so other
therapists can learn how to adapt TEAM to work with children with
specific problems such as intense shyness, autism spectrum problem,
ADHD, anger issues, and more.
Several days after the recording session, Dor was already
working on his book. Awesome!
Thanks so much for listening today!
Rhonda, Dor, and David
If you wish to contact Dor, you can email him at:
dorstra@gmail.com
About the Podcast
This podcast features David D. Burns MD, author of "Feeling Good, The New Mood Therapy," describing powerful new techniques to overcome depression and anxiety and develop greater joy and self-esteem. For therapists and the general public alike!