Today Rhonda and David interview Amy Berner, who has fallen in
love and has quite a story to tell! Today is Valentine’s Day (we
recorded this on February 14, 2023), so we thought a love story
would be a ray of joy for all of you, whether you are in a loving
relationship or still looking for one!
But first, Rhonda and David briefly interview Jeremy Karmel,
the co-CEO of David’s Feeling Good App. Jeremy tells his dramatic
personal story that led to the creation of the app, and solicits
for people who might want to join us for beta testing, which has
gotten very busy of late.
David also present some amazing data from a small, four-week
beta test in December involving around 45 beta testers. The
findings appeared to indicate that beta users experience far
greater warmth and understanding from the app than from the people
in their lives, which is on the sad side, since at the time users
applied for the app, they only estimated 55% (on a scale from 0 to
100) warmth and understanding from the people in their lives, and
roughly 85% from the digital “David” they interacted with in the
app.
We’ll see if those amazing findings hold up in two larger
replication studies now in progress.
If you think you might be interested in being a beta tester,
please sign up at www.feelinggood.com/app.
Rhonda also gave an endorsement for the upcoming second World
Congress on TEAM-CBT in Warsaw, Poland this year, March 30-April 2,
2023. It sounds exciting. I will be there is a variety of
capacities including conducting a personal session with Jill
Levitt, PhD. Please check it
out!
And, as usual, she read a compelling comment from one of our
regulars, Irish Brain, who wrote: “Another amazing podcast for the
collection!”
Amy Berner is a licensed marriage and family therapist who
works with adults and teens online in California. She loves helping
her clients heal from heartache, depression, and anxiety. You
can find her at the FeelingGreatTherapyCenter.com.
Amy’s love story started at a women’s group that Rhonda was
also in more than a year ago. It turns out that Rhonda is quite the
match-maker, and has arranged dates for large numbers of her
friends and colleagues, including Amy. However, Amy was feeling
insecure, as so many of us might, before this date.
To help her, Rhonda suggested the Feared Fantasy Exercise, and
asked Amy to list some of the things she was afraid her blind date
might be thinking, but not saying, when they met. When you do the
FF, one person plays the role of the “Date from Hell” who not only
thinks these awful things about you, but gets right up in your face
and says them.
This list of awful things the Date from Hell might say
included:
“I’m just doing Rhonda a favor in dating you.”
“You look a lot older than your picture!”
“I haven’t gotten over my last relationship yet.”
“You’re not smart enough.”
“You’re just not very interesting.”
We demonstrated the FF on the podcast, and Amy knocked them out
of the park, using humor plus the Acceptance Paradox. She said that
when they’d done that at the women’s group, in greatly reduced
Amy’s fear and trepidation prior to their first date.
Amy said she was also greatly helped by being in my small
practice group the following Tuesday at our weekly psychotherapy
training group. We were working on the “Interpersonal Downward
Arrow,” a technique I developed that quickly illuminates the roles
people play in problematic relationships.
Amy discovered that she was playing the role of the inadequate,
inferior, insecure person, and this was illuminating. One bad thing
about this role is that it quickly becomes a self-fulfilling
prophecy because if you see yourself as inferior, you will chase,
and come across as insecure, and that will cause the other person,
in most cases, to reject you.
David suggested a technique he described in his book,
Intimate Connections (which you can see
below). called the Queen Bee Phenomenon. Instead of
playing the insecure role, you give yourself all kinds of positive
messages about how sexy and awesome and desirable you are.
Once you get into that mind-set, this mind-set can also act as
a self-fulfilling prophecy. That’s because of the Burns Rule, which
states that in any relationship, especially at the start, one
person will be the pursued, and the other person will be the
pursuer. The pursued person has all the power, and the pursuer is
usually rejected.
So why not utilize the Queen Bee Phenomenon and let the guys
chase you?
This idea was transformative for our wonderful Amy, who is now
happily, giddily, engaged, and she tell her story today with her
typical wit, humor, and charm.
She emphasized another important concept from Intimate
Connections. Self-love has to come first. Once you chose to love
and like yourself, your fear of being alone disappears, and you
discover that you can be incredibly happy when you’re alone.
Then, you will no longer “need” men; and as a result, men will
need and chase you. That’s another expression of the Burns Rule
which states: Men (all people actually) ONLY want what they CAN’T
get, and NEVER want what they CAN get.
So, if you don’t “need” other people, they will have to chase
you!
And that’s what happened!
Rhonda, Amy, and David also reviewed the principles of
effective flirting.
1, Be playful, and not heavy or
serious.
2. Have fun.
3. Give playful, specific
compliments.
Amy has developed a game called “Flirty Dice” which helped her
and many others. It is suitable for anyone 14 years or older and
can be obtained at the Feeling Great
Therapy Center.
At the same time that her love life zoomed into orbit, her
clinical practice did the same. This is common—when you become a
source of joy, others just naturally are attracted to you. Kind of
like human magnetism.
Amy sees people virtually from all over California. She
practices TEAM-CBT and specializes in the treatment of depression
and anxiety, and of course, dating and relationship issues.
So, if you want to give your love-life a kick-start, or
recovery from rejection, contact her at babyfreud@gmail.com
Thanks for listening today! Last month, (January 2023), we
broke our one month download record (>182,000 downloads), so
thank you for that. We will surpass 6 million downloads
shortly.
Rhonda, Amy, and David
About the Podcast
This podcast features David D. Burns MD, author of "Feeling Good, The New Mood Therapy," describing powerful new techniques to overcome depression and anxiety and develop greater joy and self-esteem. For therapists and the general public alike!